There is quite a bit of hub-bub surrounding the talk that President Packer gave in this year's Fall conference. When I heard the talk, I immediately knew there would be quite an upheaval regarding it. With so much focus on the church's involvement in Proposition 8, with such an effort to integrate alternative lifestyles in television shows and with so much media focusing on those sad children who feel bullied and alone and feel there is no way out but suicide. The time was ripe and his talk, while misconstrued and misunderstood, lit the wick.
To counter all the protesting, there has been a Facebook Group created called, "We Love You President Packer". It's purpose is to send President Packer a message that he is loved and supported. Though this support is misguided, (I bet President Packer doesn't reside on FB), I joined the masses...Unfortunately, one may not comment unless one joins the cause.
Don't get me wrong, I love Pres. Packer. The wonderful fact is that he does not need our support, though it is equally wonderful that we still give it. He has the support and backing of God. He speaks His will. Unfortunately, sometimes that will may offend or inconvenience. I think the most important thing that can come from this is that we understand that we DO NOT know everything and that we SHOULD NOT judge others. In a forum like this, we should always, if we proclaim to be disciples of Christ, show love for EVERYONE.
While we will not accept some lifestyles, we should always show love for those that choose differently. Christ would. CHRIST DID. We should too. To each their own and with each action a reward or consequence. We believe it is wrong, but while we believe it is wrong, we should hate the sin, not the sinner. Do I believe God makes people gay? Of course not. It is against His nature to do so. He has spoken out against same sex relations in the scriptures and He would not create someone that would naturally and automatically contradict His laws.
With that said, there are many man-made diseases (for lack of a better word) that some experience; such as cancer, heart disease and others. It is proven that their are chemical imbalances that cause differences in each of us from depression to fatigue and so on. Is it not then possible that something like homosexuality could be a result in some or many cases of chemical imbalance or man-made disease? Look, I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough to know everything therfore I don't know for sure that it is or isn't, so maybe it is then and maybe this is why some believe they have no choice or that they naturally feel this attraction for their own gender. Now, for many it is a choice and the choice is becoming more popular with every passing of the sun.
Bottom Line: Our responsibility in the whole ordeal is to continue to not support that lifestyle, but we must also continue to love those who do. We cannot cast stones. We cannot judge. We MUST not. We must LOVE.
To counter all the protesting, there has been a Facebook Group created called, "We Love You President Packer". It's purpose is to send President Packer a message that he is loved and supported. Though this support is misguided, (I bet President Packer doesn't reside on FB), I joined the masses...Unfortunately, one may not comment unless one joins the cause.
Don't get me wrong, I love Pres. Packer. The wonderful fact is that he does not need our support, though it is equally wonderful that we still give it. He has the support and backing of God. He speaks His will. Unfortunately, sometimes that will may offend or inconvenience. I think the most important thing that can come from this is that we understand that we DO NOT know everything and that we SHOULD NOT judge others. In a forum like this, we should always, if we proclaim to be disciples of Christ, show love for EVERYONE.
While we will not accept some lifestyles, we should always show love for those that choose differently. Christ would. CHRIST DID. We should too. To each their own and with each action a reward or consequence. We believe it is wrong, but while we believe it is wrong, we should hate the sin, not the sinner. Do I believe God makes people gay? Of course not. It is against His nature to do so. He has spoken out against same sex relations in the scriptures and He would not create someone that would naturally and automatically contradict His laws.
With that said, there are many man-made diseases (for lack of a better word) that some experience; such as cancer, heart disease and others. It is proven that their are chemical imbalances that cause differences in each of us from depression to fatigue and so on. Is it not then possible that something like homosexuality could be a result in some or many cases of chemical imbalance or man-made disease? Look, I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough to know everything therfore I don't know for sure that it is or isn't, so maybe it is then and maybe this is why some believe they have no choice or that they naturally feel this attraction for their own gender. Now, for many it is a choice and the choice is becoming more popular with every passing of the sun.
Bottom Line: Our responsibility in the whole ordeal is to continue to not support that lifestyle, but we must also continue to love those who do. We cannot cast stones. We cannot judge. We MUST not. We must LOVE.
Here is a well thought out perspective from a Gay Mormon Male on the talk heard round the world:
President Packer had only spoken for a few seconds before I knew there would be backlash. Everything he said was directly applicable to me... and to my brothers and sisters who live with same-sex attraction. As I listened to his talk, I was torn in two ways. I knew his message was true. But most members of the Church who live with same-sex attraction don't need fire and brimstone. They already know that acting on their temptations is wrong... and they respond much better to hope, love, and support in order to gain the faith to change. In the moment, I, like thousands of others, felt like President Packer was telling me I just hadn't tried hard enough. That I wasn't good enough. And while I knew from the Spirit that those were not his intentions, I could already guess how the rest of the world - who heard the talk without the guidance of the Spirit - would react.
The reaction was immediate and vehement, from all corners of the world and seemingly every walk of life. From the Church and without. From men, women, family members, and hundreds of others. Some simply disagreed with his statements; others wished for violence to befall him. Everyone seemed up in arms.
I just re-read President Packer's talk from General Conference. As I read, I noticed something interesting. President Packer was a professional teacher. His talks are meticulously formatted to have opening, supporting, and closing sections that build on one another. In recent years, he has meandered a bit, but there's still a format.
In his opening remarks, President Packer talks about the importance of the family, the powers of procreation, and foreshadows to the rest of his talk:
"To be entrusted with the power to create life carries with it the greatest of joys and dangerous temptations."
So obviously he's going to be talking about pornography, adultery, fornication, and homosexual relations. That's all covered in the dangerous temptations. However, the main theme of his talk is pornography, as can be seen when he switches to the body of his talk with this statement:
"In our day the dreadful influence of pornography is like unto a plague sweeping across the world..."
then gives a number of other statements:
"The effect of this plague can be, unfortunately often is, spiritually fatal."
"Pornography will always repel the Spirit of Christ and will interrupt the communications between our Heavenly Father and His children and disrupt the tender relationship between husband and wife."
"The priesthood holds consummate power. It can protect you from the plague of pornography—and it is a plague—if you are succumbing to its influence."
Then came the phrase that ignited everything:
"Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and the unnatural. Not so. Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember, He is our Father."
Taking apart this statement in context gives it a bit more meaning. Simply living with same-sex attraction does not make you impure. Church doctrine is clear in that respect. So what did he mean by these "inborn tendencies toward the impure"? Aside from pornography, it is tendency and temptation to act on attractions outside of marriage. President Packer was not claiming that we could change homosexual attractions... he was simply stating that each of us has the power to choose to overcome or give in to temptation.
He then goes on to quote Paul to explain why he was so definite in his statement - "God . . . will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
He continues by explaining the Church's continuing position in moral politics:
"Regardless of the opposition, we are determined to stay on course. We will hold to the principles and laws and ordinances of the gospel."
And finishes his talk with this injunction:
"the simplest and most powerful prevention and cure for pornography, or any unclean act, is to ignore and avoid it. Delete from the mind any unworthy thought that tries to take root,"
President Packer gave a clear, direct, and concise talk on pornography and other sexual sins. I don't know if he realized that everything in his talk could also be applied to same-sex attraction... or how painful that application would be. But I know that his final statements were heartfelt and true:
"I promise that ahead of you is peace and happiness for you and your family."
"And I invoke the blessings of the Lord upon you who are struggling against this terrible plague, to find the healing that is available to us in the priesthood of the Lord."
As I read the talk again this evening, the Lord confirmed to me that I'm on the right path. I'm doing what I should be. I'm moving forward. And that is what matters.
Ultimately, as I go through life, it is my responsibility to listen with both my ears and my heart - to know when the Lord is speaking to me - and to follow Him. Then President Packer's promise will come true in my life. I will find peace and happiness... and the strength that comes through Christ the Lord.
The reaction was immediate and vehement, from all corners of the world and seemingly every walk of life. From the Church and without. From men, women, family members, and hundreds of others. Some simply disagreed with his statements; others wished for violence to befall him. Everyone seemed up in arms.
I just re-read President Packer's talk from General Conference. As I read, I noticed something interesting. President Packer was a professional teacher. His talks are meticulously formatted to have opening, supporting, and closing sections that build on one another. In recent years, he has meandered a bit, but there's still a format.
In his opening remarks, President Packer talks about the importance of the family, the powers of procreation, and foreshadows to the rest of his talk:
"To be entrusted with the power to create life carries with it the greatest of joys and dangerous temptations."
So obviously he's going to be talking about pornography, adultery, fornication, and homosexual relations. That's all covered in the dangerous temptations. However, the main theme of his talk is pornography, as can be seen when he switches to the body of his talk with this statement:
"In our day the dreadful influence of pornography is like unto a plague sweeping across the world..."
then gives a number of other statements:
"The effect of this plague can be, unfortunately often is, spiritually fatal."
"Pornography will always repel the Spirit of Christ and will interrupt the communications between our Heavenly Father and His children and disrupt the tender relationship between husband and wife."
"The priesthood holds consummate power. It can protect you from the plague of pornography—and it is a plague—if you are succumbing to its influence."
Then came the phrase that ignited everything:
"Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and the unnatural. Not so. Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember, He is our Father."
Taking apart this statement in context gives it a bit more meaning. Simply living with same-sex attraction does not make you impure. Church doctrine is clear in that respect. So what did he mean by these "inborn tendencies toward the impure"? Aside from pornography, it is tendency and temptation to act on attractions outside of marriage. President Packer was not claiming that we could change homosexual attractions... he was simply stating that each of us has the power to choose to overcome or give in to temptation.
He then goes on to quote Paul to explain why he was so definite in his statement - "God . . . will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
He continues by explaining the Church's continuing position in moral politics:
"Regardless of the opposition, we are determined to stay on course. We will hold to the principles and laws and ordinances of the gospel."
And finishes his talk with this injunction:
"the simplest and most powerful prevention and cure for pornography, or any unclean act, is to ignore and avoid it. Delete from the mind any unworthy thought that tries to take root,"
President Packer gave a clear, direct, and concise talk on pornography and other sexual sins. I don't know if he realized that everything in his talk could also be applied to same-sex attraction... or how painful that application would be. But I know that his final statements were heartfelt and true:
"I promise that ahead of you is peace and happiness for you and your family."
"And I invoke the blessings of the Lord upon you who are struggling against this terrible plague, to find the healing that is available to us in the priesthood of the Lord."
As I read the talk again this evening, the Lord confirmed to me that I'm on the right path. I'm doing what I should be. I'm moving forward. And that is what matters.
Ultimately, as I go through life, it is my responsibility to listen with both my ears and my heart - to know when the Lord is speaking to me - and to follow Him. Then President Packer's promise will come true in my life. I will find peace and happiness... and the strength that comes through Christ the Lord.
8 comments:
Interesting concept about "man-made disease"...never thought of it that way. --I didn't see any of the backlash coming when I heard Pres. Packer's talk and wouldn't have until I saw that FB thread. I re-read his talk and too bad people took it the wrong way. --I appreciate this Mormon gay man's reply...thanks for posting.
Being the affirmative action hire at my job (straight, married, mormon) Nearly 50% of my work is gay. I hear tons of "bad" The Church does. From this all two thoughts prevail for me.
1. From my perspective I have yet to meet a gay person who I thought was born that way. I am not saying that its not possible to be "born" with the tendencies but everyone I know chose the path at some point in their lives. Many switched teams to find "love" any love from anyone. Bad marriages and bad homes seem to be common among them. I find it quite sad that they experienced these bad things.
2. A timeless scripture from the Book of Mormon.
1 Nephi 16:2
And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
Well put, Eran.
Good post Q.
Its that age old question. Are people born gay or is it a choice to be gay. It has to reside somewhere in the middle and on an individual basis. I do believe that for some, they have very, very strong tendencies to the same sex. I have talked to many that feel this way. I know someone that changed his sexual orientation completely because since a very young age felt that He was a She. He is now a She and feels that is how they were born. I have known other small boys that you can say "oh boy, that kids going to be gay" and 15 years later they come out saying that they are. There could be many reason for this even to the extent of being classified this way and thus believing it themselves and thus making the choice.
My main problem with what Pres. Packer said was that "some feel preset to this and why would our Heavenly Father do this to anyone? Remember, he is our Father." I work with many people daily that are affected by born illness, disease or disability to trust the statement, "why would our Heavenly Father do this to us?" It happens on so many levels.
On the other extreme, I found it interesting that just yesterday Pres. Obama said it is NOT a choice.
When asked in a Q&A meeting if he thought being gay or trans is a choice, Obama response was, “I don't profess to be an expert,” but “I don't think it's a choice. I think that people are born with a certain makeup, and that we're all children of God. We don't make determinations about who we love. And that's why I think that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is wrong.”
Pres. Obama is taking it to the other far side saying that it is not a choice. Absurd for him to say that we don't make determinations about who we love. Really?? We have no choice in this?
Choice or not? Interesting topic. I feel they are who they are and must be shown love either way.
Thanks, Kent. I like what this Gay Mormon Guy stated about Pres. Packer's comments, that he was speaking to all temptations, that Heavenly Father doesn't give us temptations that we cannot overcome. I can agree with that statement. Heavenly Father would not give us something that is inevitably insurmountable. Neither would I with my children.
Of course, the bottom line is the most important and that is that we should choose to love everyone regardless of differing beliefs. However, to love does not necessarily mean to conform or to endorse or to support.
True to what the gay guy said to clarify the temptation side.. My bad.
No need to post this comment.
I think that to love everyone in spite of their lifestyle or decisions is Christ's example, and the choice of the leaders of our choice. I don't think, however, that it is only the misconception of gays to think otherwise, I think some of our members come off very judgemental regarding this subject. We need to figure out exactly how we show love to our homosexual and transgender brothers and sisters, without coming off elitist. Christ would never appear elitist. I believe this is difficult, but possible. You can find a place where you can at least sympathize what it's like to ask them to give up a need they feel strongly....whether it's by their own choice, or inborn.
I have so much trouble giving up cola. I try and fail and try again. How difficult can it be to give up loving who you want to love, or being who you feel you truly are born to be? We have not had their trial so we can't imagine how difficult it really is. Only God can.
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